Disability Power Series Featuring Dr. Lisa Meeks and Our Members

EMILY BLUM:
Welcome everybody, and welcome to the Disability Power Series hosted byDisability Lead. I'm Emily Blum, CEO of Disability Lead. I'm a white woman withbrown shoulder length hair. I'm wearing tortoiseshell glasses and I'm wearingan orange top. I have a physical disability, though that may not be visible inthis virtual setting. We're so pleased that you've joined us today for ourDisability Power Series, an annual program series featuring powerful disabledleaders and bringing together an intentional audience. Today's program includesASL interpretation and card services. While you can access auto captions righthere in zoom, we're also providing a stream text link in the chat where you canaccess card in a separate browser. If you have any access issues or requireassistance throughout the program, feel free to utilize the chat box to messagedisplayed support for assistance. This program is being recorded and will beavailable for public viewing in the coming weeks. Disability Lead's mission ispowerful in its clarity.

We increase civic engagement and build diverse leadership bynurturing and expanding a network of leaders with disabilities. At our core, weknow that leadership is not a privilege reserved for a select few. It is aright, and it is essential to achieving justice, equity and inclusion fordisabled people everywhere. We make connections to opportunities for ournetwork of over 250 disabled leaders, and we're absolutely thrilled to welcomesome of our very own members as panelists in today's program alongside ourfeatured guest. I'm thrilled to invite our entire panel to join me on screen atthis time. But before I introduce our panelists, hi, panelists, I wanna pauseand acknowledge the moment we're in. I know our panelists share this messagewith me. Today's conversation is about the critical importance of disabledrepresentation in health care spaces. But we can't talk about the futurewithout being honest about the present. Across the country, enacted andproposed policies threaten to roll back benefits, freedoms and the variabilityof disabled people to live independently.

This includes access to health care and the medicalresources that we rely on. These attacks are a stark reminder that rights arenever guaranteed. They must be defended. Our community deserves more thansurvival. We deserve the chance to thrive. That's why the leadership ofdisabled people is not optional, It is essential. The movement for disabilityjustice depends on all of us, each in our own ways. Showing up, speaking up andleading. And that brings us to today's conversation. Our panelists are leaderswho prove that when disabled people are in positions of influence, we reshapesystems for the better. Their work shows what's possible when expertise, livedexperience and commitment come together. We are grateful for their courage,their persistence and their vision, especially in a time when both are beingtested. Now please join me in welcoming our featured guest, Doctor Lisa Meeks,Professor of Medical Education at the University of Illinois College ofMedicine and founder of the Docs With Disabilities Initiative, and Lisa isjoined by Disability Lead members Katherine Vakil, pharmacy services manager atErie Family Health Centers.

Doctor Zoe Sheets, resident physician at the University ofChicago, and Kruti Shah, pharmacist at Oak Street Health, who will be helpingto moderate today's conversation. Welcome and thank you all for being here.

KRUTI SHAH:
Thank you Emily. Hello and welcome everyone. My name is Kruti Parikh Shah. Mypronouns are she/her and I'm a South Asian woman with dark brown hair wearing ablue outfit. I am so thrilled to be here with the panelists today, who I amprivileged to know from prior to this panel. I respect them so much and it istruly an honor to be with them. We've got a lot to cover, and we reallyappreciate all the questions that were submitted beforehand, because they aregoing to help us guide this fantastic conversation. To kick things off, I'dlike to start by making space for each one of us to share a little bit moreabout who we are. We are all healthcare professionals, but we're also peoplewith disabilities. So, let's take a moment to share one way each of us areleading our disability identities in the healthcare space. I'll start with mebriefly and then turn it over to doctor Meeks, and then Katherine, and thenZoie. I am a clinical pharmacist specializing in inpatient psychiatry andtransitions of care.

My job is to help ensure medication regimen is safe andeffective for my patients, and avoid hospital re-admission. My connection todisability is that I am hard of hearing. I was diagnosed with mild to moderatehearing loss at the time. For years I managed it quietly, but it wasn't until2020 when the pandemic hit that my world was completely upended. Overnight,masks became mandatory. Lip reading that I relied on vanished. Suddenly, I feltisolated, insecure. I was struggling to understand my patients, my team. Myconfidence was shattered in a moment of sheer desperation. I thought to myself,I can't be the only one dealing with this, as a pharmacist, as a healthcareprofessional. So, I turned to Google and started searching for healthcareprofessionals with disabilities. And guess what I found, Docs WithDisabilities. Hearing the powerful stories of doctors and nurses and dentists,audiologists, and so many more professionals through podcasts of Docs WithDisability. They're real, raw experiences.

Their story was a lifeline for me. It was a moment ofprofound realization that I am not alone, that my struggles were not just myown, they were a call to action. After connecting with Doctor Meeks, who Iemailed and she invited me to share my story on Docs With Disability Podcastthrough a network of leaders of Disability lead as well as ERG at myorganization previously, I felt empowered to advocate for Clear Mask during thepandemic at the organization. My journey from feeling isolated to becoming anadvocate for access educating pharmacy professionals on disability inclusionthrough panels, through presentations, at school level, at state level, atnational level, and serving as DEIA committee member of the American College ofClinical Pharmacy. To inform about accessibility at conferences, to inform thepolicy, to ensure that our profession of pharmacy remains inclusive. That isthe way I'm able to lead with my disabled identity, to realize that disabilityidentity is not a weakness, but this is the very thing that makes us powerfulcatalysts for change.

And with that, I would love to hear from Doctor Meeks.

LISA MEEKS:
My goodness, you're bringing me to tears, with your own story and recountingit. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm Lisa meeks. I'm wearing a dark docs withDisabilities initiative jacket and I have short blond hair and I'm wearingtortoiseshell glasses. I use the she/her series of pronouns, the way that Ilead with my disability, and I've never heard this question. I've never beengiven this question, so I love it. Thank you. I think mostly it's about beingvery intentional about creating space for disabled clinicians and researchersto lead, not just participate in this work. And that means building structuresthat recognize the realities of being disabled and working in crip time,prioritizing access for all of our meetings, all of our events from the start,so no one feels like they have to fit in to a mold to contribute meaningfully.I think when Docs With Disabilities creates an environment where people canwork in ways that honor their bodies and minds authentically, the work itselfis so much stronger and richer and more innovative.

So, in that way, I think I'm leading by creating this spaceand allowing this flexibility, which results in a better product and is morerespectful of the full humanity of every contributor. And so another way that Ilead, I think, is by example, I am a disabled scholar. And so when I'm in aflare or I'm unwell, I take the time that I need to rest. When you work in ateam where disability is central to your belief system and all of theprinciples of disability justice are practiced, you're able to do that withoutapology. So, I'll step back and I trust my team to step forward. And thatreciprocity, that willingness to give and take and receive support in our team,I think truly models accessibility and it's a sustainable culture for me andmany others.

KRUTI SHAH:
Katherine, I'd love to hear from you.

KATHERINE VAKIL:
Thank you. Hi everyone. My name is Katherine Vakil, i use she/her pronouns. Iam a mixed race woman with shoulder length curly brown hair and brown eyes. I'msitting in my home office with a blurred background. Reflecting on thisquestion of how I lead with my disability, identity, and healthcare. A lot ofthe themes that both my fellow panelists, Lisa and Kruti, brought up alsoresonated with me. I think for me, it really started with embracing mydisability identity. I know at the very beginning of my career, I kind of keptthat to the bottom. I didn't really, discuss it at all. I was like, I need towork hard. I need to work five times harder than my non-disabled peers in orderto be successful. So, it really started with just embracing myself and comingout as my authentic disabled self in the healthcare space, in my career. And Istarted with just the community of disabled people. So, for example, withdisability and disability lead, for example, that really gave me the space tojust come as who I truly am.

And then what I wanted to do was take that feeling of wearand being in spaces where I felt safe and bring that into my own workplace. AndI think that also started with sharing my story. So, as I started to embrace myidentity and who I was, that I started to share those stories, and I started torealize that I had many colleagues, people that I work with, that shared thosesimilar challenges and experiences that I did. And so I wanted to continue toput forth that, with that energy of where we can feel safe. I feel like one ofmy favorite sayings is you don't really feel the burden that you have untilyou're in a space where you feel safe and you're like, that's kind of what Itry to do now in my everyday world. So, similar to Kruti I am a pharmacist by training,but I'm more on the administrative side. I'm not seeing patients face to face,but I am working with many different colleagues and interdisciplinary world,and I want to be able to show that we as healthcare providers, healthcareprofessionals, can be disabled and still be excellent care, health careproviders.

So, that's one way that I show up every day.

KRUTI SHAH:
Thank you. Katherine, we'd love to hear from Zoie.

ZOIE SHEETS:
Hi everyone. My name is Zoie. I use she and they pronouns, and I'm a whiteperson with long, light brown hair and a tan sweater with a blurred background.Thank you so much for the question and to Disability Lead for having us heretoday. I'm a newer member of Disability Lead, and I can't tell you all howexciting it was that becoming a member and having Docs With Disabilities, kindof engaging with Disability Lead at the same time felt like such a just abeautiful moment of some of my favorite things coming together. I really likethis question. And I think a big way that I lead with my disability identity ishaving conversations about disability and spaces where there otherwise wouldn'tbe. So, for a little bit of background, I am one of the leaders of the DocsWith Disabilities initiative. Incredibly grateful to be mentored by DoctorMeeks. I'm a researcher within the lab that Docs With Disabilities houses. AndI've also done, a lot of work on the transition of medical students to being residentsor doctors who are still in training but are licensed, although stillsupervised.

I also, though, do research and education on how we canbetter care for our patients with disabilities. And with the interest in bothof those spheres, I've found that something I, as a disabled person, can offeris conversations about what disability is. What do we mean when we saydisability? What is disability, identity and culture and language? So, forcingus to step outside of disability as a diagnosis or a medical problem andactually think about and understand disability as a social and a lived experience.So, I look for these moments, whether someone is curious about my mobility aidsor the stool I use when we're rounding on patients in the hospital, if we'rediscussing accessibility for a patient themselves, or maybe giving a newdiagnosis of disability, whatever the moment is to share those small pieces ofinformation about disability, identity and culture. I really like taking theseapproach, this approach, because even though I do offer lectures and broader,more formal moments of education, I think these small real moments between twocolleagues or friends or learners can have a really lasting impact.

And when I'm vulnerable about my own needs or share my owndisabled perspective on a clinical situation, it really allows for that pausewhere others are invited to think differently, or maybe consider something theyhaven't in the past. And so I think sometimes leading is just as simple as asbeing as being honest, being yourself, being willing to engage. Andparticularly in a space like healthcare, where a moment to consider thedisabled perspective is really, unfortunately, not the norm.

KRUTI SHAH:
Thank you. I'm having goosebumps just listening to that. Pure authentic heartto heart conversation. Thank you for your vulnerability and authenticity. Allof you. So, with, you know, we this is a power series, and Doctor Lisa Meeks isinvited. We would love to know more about docs with disabilities. I want toread her to the important work, because we, all of us, that we were connectedis obviously through Doctor Meeks. And you being the founder, the co-directorof the initiative. Please tell us more about how did you do it, how did it allstart and how it has grown to be this global platform?

LISA MEEKS:
Thank you. Well, it started I was doing things in varied areas, so I was doingI just started my research career. I had been in private practice as aclinician. I had been a disability resource professional in the past and kindof all of those things synergize to say there is this huge gap, a disconnectreally, in understanding how to create disability inclusion and healthprofessions education. And for me, it didn't seem like it would take much tofill that gap. But alongside that gap, frankly, there was this assumption bymany healthcare educators and leaders that disabled people could not possiblybe in medicine. And when I say medicine, I mean broadly pharmacy, PTOT,nursing. At the same time, there was this early work people that I look up toso much, Christy Kirschner, Lisa Iezzoni, where they proposed that havingdisabled providers could actually benefit medicine and contribute positively topatient care, but there was no real evidence to back that up. And in medicine,we love empirical data.

So, I wanted to change that by starting to create data inthis space. And at the same time, I recognize that creating the data aloneisn't really helpful. I think if we asked our audience today what the mostimpactful thing is in changing hearts and minds about disability, they wouldall say stories. And, you know, Doctor Sheets, talking about the littleinteractions that she has with individuals. I would argue are exponentiallymore impactful than any paper that we produce. But we do need all of these thingsto be in a space together, working together. So, I thought, well, we'll startthe research. And that was back in 2016. And then we need these stories to goalong with it. So, I launched in 2017. It's so weird to say that the Docs WithDisabilities podcast, and the goal of that podcast was to be a directcounter-narrative to the assumptions that were out there, right? That peoplewith disabilities could not be healthcare providers. And I knew that there werethousands of people living with disability and thriving as healthcareproviders.

And I wanted to find those and elevate those stories, give aplatform for those stories so that we could actively combat the assumptionsthat people have. And important to my personal ethos and and my research ethos,which Doctor Schiess and I share and recently wrote up, for our website and forpeople to use, was that all of this work, if we were going to create thisorganization, that all of it had to be with the idea that it's for people withdisabilities as well, and that it's informed by people with disabilities. So,keeping all of that in mind from the very beginning, we thought we'll focus onthree things research, education. The education was very easy for me because itwas what I had been doing for a very long time. So, teaching faculty, teaching institutionsabout disability, inclusion and storytelling. And on the research side, we'vemade incredible strides. I'm so proud of what we've done. And one of the thingsthat I love, this just kind of a little cheeky aside, is that, you know, peoplethink that individuals with disabilities can't be as productive.

Productivity is something that comes up a lot. And yet ourresearch lab has produced almost, I would say, 80% of the research ondisability. And this year alone, we've produced, I think by year's end we willhave almost 30 publications. That is unheard of. So, we are overproducing atthis point. And what I tell people is when you have a team that is soconnected, that is so focused, and where you can bring your authentic self,similar to what we just heard, that, you know, there's a safety there, there'sa you can get rid of all that energy, that cognitive energy, that emotionalenergy that you expend every day trying to navigate inaccessible environments.And you can thrive. And so our team really thrives on that research side. Andwe've been able to bring more learners into our system. We've examined clinicalaccommodations, explored intersectionality and equity. And all of our researchis used then to translate to policy recommendations. Doctor Sheets has been ahuge part of that on the policy side and on the research side.

And now as a senior researcher is mentoring up. So, we havea system where we mentor learners up through their educational pathway intotraining, and then they become PIs on our grants. We're also partnering withnational organizations. All of the educational organizations like the AAMC theAMA, the ACGME, AACN, ACP. I don't want to miss anybody. But suffice to say,we're partnering with all of the associations that are involved in healthprofessions education to bring free and accessible training to their facultyand to their constituents. And the training that's being done is being done bydisabled people, which makes it all for me, just this amazing full circle kindof bucket filling work. We do webinars, curriculum development, all of thosesorts of things. So, I think mostly what I would say about Docs WithDisabilities. You have the three things that we really focus on. But internallywe're really focused on building a pathway for future health care providers andto mentor them up.

And so we do a lot of work on mentoring, making sure ourenvironments honor access, honor crip time and importantly, lean intocollective leadership and collective care, supporting disabled clinicians andresearchers and learners in whatever way or with whatever efforts they want tobe involved. And I think, you know, I can talk about Docs With Disabilities allday, and we only have so much time. But it's funny because I look at who's beenwith the organization the most. And out of that group, Zoe, interestingly, haskind of grown up in Docs With Disabilities. I would say I don't wanna speak forher, but she probably has some great insight as well.

KRUTI SHAH:
Thanks, Lisa. As you can notice, there are so many hearts that were comingthrough the screen as when you were speaking. And, you know, testament to your,such powerful. But also, there's so much, you know, thought that went intothis. And we would love to hear from Zoie, who is a member of the research teamand committee chair. Can you please tell us a little bit more about, how DocsWith Disabilities supported your career?

ZOIE SHEETS:
Similar to Lisa, I could talk about that forever. And so when I was reflectingon this conversation, I really thought about my origin story with docs becauseI think all of the examples I have are born out of this moment where docs sortof shifted my perspective. I think the story captures not just why Docs WithDisabilities matters, but also why representation and conversations like this,and what the long term impact of having inclusion is for bringing up, as DoctorMeeks often talks about bringing up the next generation and mentoring up. Iwanted to be a doctor since I was a toddler. I have no idea where that ideacame from. I clearly had no idea what I was talking about. But it still didn'tchange. And so growing up and seeing my parents health issues, and then inearly adolescence, developing my own disability, I saw healthcare in a reallyintimate way. And unfortunately, what I saw were a lot of flaws within thehealthcare system, ways that people were, dismissed or harmed or didn't have accessto what they needed.

And this compelled me really strongly to become a doctor, totruly pursue the thing I had perhaps jokingly been saying when I was a childand I came to college, full steam ahead, pre-med, ready to go. And I was luckyto attend UIC. Actually, before transitioning to UChicago. And this was aschool that had so many opportunities for a well-rounded education and startingin my junior year, offered disability studies classes for undergrads. And theseclasses allowed me to deepen my own disability identity, to build a community,to understand who I could be as a disability scholar, but also to understandthe depth of harm that's been caused against my community by the medical systemand sometimes the people within that system. And at the same time, I was beginningto struggle with my own symptoms. They were worsening with the stress ofcollege, with having to navigate a large campus with Chicago winters. And mygrades were dropping and I struggled with my MCAT, having to take it twice,because I actually didn't get approval for accommodations initially.

And all of this compounded into a moment where I realized Ijust cannot be a doctor, my body cannot handle this, I cannot do this, and I'mnot qualified. It wasn't justified for me to join a community that I felt likewas causing harm, and I hadn't yet seen an example of how that could be donedifferently. And so I took a step back and I pursued a master's degree, and Ifocused my master's of public health on primary care access for people withdisabilities. And as I dove into this and the data bloomed in front of me, itwas clear there was such a need for disability awareness in medicine. Fastforward a little bit, as my master's program connected me to folks like DoctorChristie Kirshner, doctor Ray Curry, Jay Mueller, people who were within themedical education department and were doing this work. They were committed todisability and medicine. I had no idea there were people doing this work. Ididn't know this work existed until I started diving into this research, andwith every conversation I had, everyone said, you have to meet Lisa Meeks andyou have to listen to the Docs With Disabilities podcast.

And I did, i reached out and we connected. And with everyconversation I had with Lisa, with every podcast episode I listened to, withevery paper I read, my doubt faded away every single day, and it actuallybecame crystal clear to me that not only could I be a doctor with a disability,I should, because I am capable, because I can, but also because it's needed.Because I had the capacity to get it in ways that other people couldn't. AndDocs With Disabilities is what showed me that possibility, because there wereso many providers before me that were willing to be vulnerable and to sharetheir story. There was someone who had created a platform for them to do that,and they've continued to stand behind me and shape me as I've figured out notonly what is it like to become a disabled doctor, to now be in my third year ofbeing a disabled doctor. But also, what does it mean to try to change the worldso that the people coming after me, don't have to have that same moment ofdoubt? It's just assumed and understood that we will be here too.

KRUTI SHAH:
That was. Thank you so much for sharing such a powerful journey. And I caughtmyself, tearing up because of that powerful story. So, thank you again. And Ican, you know, your story is testament to so many people kind of, you know,catching themselves saying, I don't think I can do something that I'm set to dobecause of my disability and hearing the story, having Docs With Disabilitiesto, you know, to mentor this journey, I can proudly say that this mentorshipwas provided to me that really lifted all the barriers up and realized thatclarity, that crystal clarity to help us navigate our path forward and that weare important. Very beautifully said. And so I actually from that example thatyou shared, we can truly see that dogs with disability is centering the way inwhere disabled representation is there, whether that is medical education orother health care education, whether that is in practice, where patientcentered or patient facing healthcare organization or whether that is in research.

And so what if we can maybe go around maybe Katherine, ifyou can share more about how, um, disabled representation impact the patientexperience and models of care, that would be lovely. Would love to hear fromyou.

KATHERINE VAKIL:
Absolutely. I think this is at the core of what I truly believe in. It reallydoes, impact the patient experience and our model of healthcare and our changesit for the better. I think I think the most obvious thing that that pops up is,you know, having the shared experience of being disabled between the healthcareprovider and the patient, it just leads you to being more empathetic andunderstanding as a provider. I think the way I think about it is kind of itgrounds you. It goes from me thinking I need to fix my patient or cure mypatient to how can we work together to get what you want out of your life? Andas a disabled provider, you really, truly understand that at a different level,uh, compared to a non-disabled person. But like I alluded to earlier, my roleis more administrative. And so I don't really see patients face to face on adaily basis. So, I'm, I have the privilege of being in spaces where decisionsare made that ultimately impact patient care. And so in any space that I'm in,I'm always thinking about disability inclusion, am I?

I always try to keep that in mind, whether or not it willimpact our patients, but also my fellow colleagues. So I truly love what DoctorMeeks and Doctor Sheets are doing, because they are really focused on ourlearners and those that are becoming providers. But in my own story, I was apharmacist for seven years without having embraced my disability. So, now I'mlike, I need to figure out how to embrace that disability. So, and I knowthere's many colleagues and peers that are going through the same thing wherethey're trying to. They're keeping that part of them hidden. And so my hope isthat with every decision I make or every thought that I'm putting out, is thatI'm also allowing that space to bring those disabled providers that alreadyexist in the world to be able to do the best work that they can. And thatultimately, for me, makes them a better healthcare provider. And improve thatpatient experience. And so I think that's what's really cool for me, for thispanel, is that we can really be leaders in all different areas.

Sometimes we think, I can never be a leader. You think youneed to be at like some top powerful position. But no, in every every spaceyou're in, whether you're starting out as a student, whether you've beenworking for seven years and have never even talked about it before, or whetheryou're in like an administrative space or you're actually targeting or workingdirectly with patients, you can make a difference. And I've seen that in my ownwork. So, I started out working with patients directly. And then now in myadministrative role again, I think about when I'm in a meeting or when I'mworking with my team is my work or the way that I'm directing my team inclusivebecause we know that there are many folks with invisible disability. So I wannamake sure that I have that universal accessibility. Top of mind for me. Andthen also when I'm working with providers or those that are making changessystem wide, am I thinking about my patient? Do they even. We have so manywonderful resources in our healthcare space, but we know not every not everyonecan even access it.

So, how do I even open those doors for my fellow disabledpatient to be able to get access to that? So, for me, it's that really likereframing your mindset and always thinking and also truly believing in yourinfluence. You never know. Even if it's one person, you've you've changed oneperson's life. And that's truly a beautiful thing. So, that's one thing that Ithink about a lot.

KRUTI SHAH:
Thank you, Katherine, for leading with that, identity. And from what I'veheard, and the impact that you're making for medication access, and I'm apharmacist, so I can you know, this medication aspect for vulnerable populationis such a such a challenge. You know, there's so many medications that areexpensive, unaffordable, even though guidelines are recommending a medication.But so many patients that you know you are not, you and I are dealing with areunfortunately not able to have their barriers due to the different reasons andto be able to work, with the team to remove those barriers, to make sure thatmedications are available to our patients, whether that is financial access,you know, transportation, all these other things that, you know, I as atransition care pharmacist, help with. It really is because of that disabilityidentity that I'm able to lean in. Zoie, doctor Shields, we would love to hearfrom you as a medical doctor, about how I know you shared a few examples about,impacting learners.

But we'd also love to learn about patient experiences andmodels of care.

ZOIE SHEETS:
Absolutely. I keep saying I love this question. I love all the questions, but Ithink the reason I love this question is because those stories, the patientcare stories, those are what fuel me, right? Those are what keep me going.Because as much as I firmly believe that there should be disabled people whoare doctors and pharmacists and all of the things, it's also hard. And until wehave the transformation that eliminates the stigma and the bias that we face,it's always going to feel hard. And so having the patient stories, in additionto the communities like Docs With Disabilities or disability lead or whereveryou find your people, having the patient stories is such an important way tocome home at the end of the day and say, it's worth it. I've got this, thismatters. And so I think of a few specific stories, two of which I'll brieflyshare. One was a young patient who lived with autism and, had not reallyidentified as disabled so much as just neurodivergent, but was dealing with anew life altering disability diagnosis of paraplegia.

And we had so many conversations, his family and I of whatthis would mean. And his mom had told me several times that the conversations Iwas having did not mirror the conversations that other providers were having.And when I explored this with her, it became so obvious that what was missingin those other conversations that had been focused on deficit and challenge,that was to come. The conversations I was having was, how do we find himdisabled mentors? How do we make sure that he knows how to do fun things likewheelchair wheelies and things like that? You know, like, how do we make surethat he gets to figure out who he is as a disabled person? And I don't knowthat I would have known that that was just as integral a part of theconversation had I not become disabled at the exact same age that this kid wasexperiencing what he was. I am a med-peds doctor, so I see patients from themoment they're born until old age. And so that's a pediatric story. But I thinkof another adult patient I had that I cared for for weeks, and she had such aconstant progression in what was happening with her body, where we would betalking about one issue and then it kind of be something else came up.

And as we were tackling one thing at a time, I would comeback every afternoon and say, OK, let's break it down. Let's update our pieceof paper where we're keeping track of things. And she finally asked me duringweek three where I learned to communicate with patients. And when I told her abit of my lived experience. She looked at me and I'll never forget, she said,this might sound weird because I can't say that I'm glad that you have had thechallenges you have, but man, am I glad you've had the challenges you've hadbecause you get it. And that to me was this moment of as much as I wishsometimes things hadn't been hard, I'm also glad that I've had the challenges Ihave because of the way that it's made me, the doctor that I wanna be. And thatmatters, right? Patients that can tell that their doctor gets it, whether it'srace or gender or sexuality or disability or really importantly, theintersection of some of those things. Doctors who get it can not only connectwith their patients, but they can also transform the perspective of colleagueswho are witnessing these conversations and seeing what it means to show up in adisability affirmative way.

KRUTI SHAH:
Thank you, Zoie for sharing those two concrete examples. I feel like when youwere describing, I felt like I was in the room with you in the patient as youwere talking through, and with, you know, that conversation, you know whatwe're talking about. And this is a multidisciplinary when we think abouthealthcare, you know, giving the providing the care to our patients, reallyunderstanding the barriers is what I feel that we all have been able to and theway we're able to connect the empathy. I, if I could take a moment and maybeshare about one example as a inpatient psychiatry pharmacist. But psychiatry,as we know, is not, you know, there's a lot of stigma associated with it. It'snot just people. People don't just, you know, have it in their history, belike, OK, PTSD, depression, substance use disorder. People don't normally liketo or wanna talk about it and to be in that vulnerable, to be in an inpatientsetting when patients are coming in and to be able to connect with them, to askthem about their medications and make a discharge plan with them is somethingthat, again, made me feel that I was.

I am with you. I understand what the stigma does to you. Andso that's why instead of owning that and doing something about it, we end up,you know, furthering it away from that diagnosis or medical condition,furthering it away. And so to be able to have that candid conversation and say,we have help, let's figure out how we can get help, how we can speak therapy.And, really connecting the dots and removing the stigma has been, reallypowerful experience for me. Lisa, I would like to pass the baton over to you,for the next round.

LISA MEEKS:
I, you know, I it's so interesting because you have this theory and I have thistheory that's all patterned out right about the the mechanisms and the pathwaysin which disabled people will impact healthcare at the end of the day. But thenlistening to the three of you talk about it really in the moment, the thingsthat actually do happen is so powerful. I believe that disabled representationfundamentally changes the patient experience. I really do, and as your storiesare kind of a testament to that, I do think when a patient sees a provider orconnects with a provider, it doesn't have to be an apparent disability, butsomebody that lives with disability, that there's this level of trust. And forthose with non-apparent disabilities, you may not even understand what that isuntil you get into kind of a discussion with the provider. But there'ssomething about this person that signals to you that they get it and thatthey're listening to you. And so I think it's really that trust this, this sensethat beyond the medical facts, the person is listening to what you'rereporting, your lived reality, believing you.

That's huge in medicine. And then acting on it. But making aplan with you because you are the expert in that space. And this trust, theunderstanding totally changes the conversation. I like to say it reduces thatpower differential with the medical professional almost immediately. And again,with that cognitive energy I talked about before that, where when theresearchers come into our space, they don't have to do all of that guessing andall of that work emotionally. I think it's the same for patients. So, patientsdon't have to explain or defend their experience or contextualize it in a waythat's palatable to the healthcare provider. And in many ways, you can startfrom a place of shared knowledge and respect for Zoie when Zoie's using amobility device like her cane or scooter. There's an immediate signaling to thepatient, and I've been lucky enough to, as her mentor, hear so many stories.That was just two of countless stories, really, of the way that in these smallmoments, these five, ten minute engagements, that she's changed someone'sperspective or made someone feel seen.

I think it also delivers powerful assumption bustinginformation. So do delivering health care. Improving healthcare isn't justabout a disabled provider to a disabled patient. I think that having disabledproviders in the space, sharing it with non-disabled providers is deeplyimpactful because you are challenging other clinicians perspectives ofdisability and their impressions of who and what disabled people are. Many ofyou probably are aware of Lisa Iezzoni's publication in the last year or so,looking at the perceptions of providers, what they really think about disabledpeople, and it's insulting and it's heartbreaking and it's challenging and it'sone of the biggest challenges we have. So having people with disabilities inthat healthcare space as providers not only good for patients, but really goodfor combating the ableism and the assumptions that live in that space, andthose non-disabled providers with a new understanding or having had theirableism challenged, can then provide better care or think more broadly, havemore empathy.

So, I think that's another mechanism that's reallyimportant. And I don't think that it's, you know, all about disabled providers,and disabled patients that are disability-specific. So it's not you know, Zoiehas a chronic health disability. And that doesn't mean that Zoie needs to carefor chronic health related patients, right? That there's something that'stransformed about disability and just the experience that although eachindividual person with a disability is so different, they do share a lot of commonexperiences. And so that lens helps improve the system and helps improve care,I think, for everyone. So, that's those are a few of the ways in which I thinkor the ways in which the model that I've created has is set up to impact that.And that's what we are looking to test and get empirical evidence on. We doknow that empathy is higher for disabled providers and that empathy stays highregardless of burnout. So, we know that the majority of our health careprofession are experiencing burnout at various times in their career.

But if you are a person who identifies as disabledregardless of your burnout, the empathy is not eroding. And that's a reallyimportant finding from one of our studies. So, I know the time has come. I'm alittle bit nervous, I must say, because I'm supposed to ask you all how docswith disabilities has impacted your lives, but you made me cry at thebeginning, and I'm not wearing waterproof mascara, so you probably noticed thatI've been wiping my eyes. Now my eyes are stinging and I'm terrified to cry again.I grabbed, uh, tissues because I've never actually, it's funny sitting herethinking, I do this work every day, I literally do. This is my life and I'm soblessed. I'm so appreciative. But I get up and I do the work, and I don't oftenget to be in a situation where I'm hearing people in the same panel talk aboutthe impact it's had. So it's moved me a little today in ways I had notanticipated. So, i'm gonna sheepishly ask you how docs with disabilities hasimpacted the way that you work.

And then I'm going to have tissues right here if I turn mycamera off, forgive me, but a little scared at your your answers and what howthat might work, but maybe a lightning rod, a lighting round, from each of you.Just really quickly.

KRUTI SHAH:
Do you want me to go first?

LISA MEEKS:
Sure.

KRUTI SHAH:
OK. I'm happy to. It's hard to do it in two minutes. Just as you mentionedthat. It's hard to do it. You know, talk about Docs With Disabilities, but I'lltry. I think I kind of captured what Lisa, your, you know, connecting with you.You really broke down the wall for me. You broke down my I cannot to say yes Ican. Because of modeling with all these healthcare professionals, I can bereally quick and brief and share in three ways what Docs With Disabilities haddone. First of all, it helped me to connect with other mentors. And that's howKatherine and I, we both have our podcast, you know, out there, our episode outthere, we connected with other healthcare professionals. I reached out to themto say, I loved your story. I really love to, you know, reach out to you andconnect. And really, there's a lot of, power in being together in joiningforces. So, that joining forces is what I got from Docs With Disabilities. Andto pass that forward, I know, Lisa, you're visionary. You're thinking about howwe can take access in medicine and apply it applied access in pharmacy.

And I know that journey with access and pharmacy, with youas a mentor, as a leader, is going to be powerful and great and much needed.The second avenue is education. I realized that there's a lot of as you know,all three panelists mentioned that the the barrier here is that there's not alot of knowledge about how to handle how to have disability inclusion inspaces. And so with this, I feel like I'm able to educate and haveopportunities to talk about disability inclusion in workplaces as well as inpharmacy education. And then the last thing is advocating advocate for needs iswhat I got the courage for. I was scared to say, I need captions, I need clearmasks. But now I think about if I am asking somebody else is going to bebenefiting from that. And so that courage is what I got from Doctor Disability.Thank you.

ZOIE SHEETS:
I think for me, I could not have made it more clear today. All the way as docswith disabilities has impacted me and I will not rehash them all. But the lastthing I will highlight is that as I have transitioned to being a leader withinDocs With Disabilities, what that opened for me that I don't know I expectedwas a constant flow of learners coming to me and asking me for mentorship andguidance and advice in the same way that I got it from people like Lisa Meeks,Doctor Justin Bullock, Doctor Chris Moreland, Doctor Melinda Charnsangavej, allthese leaders that have built me up in such powerful ways. And it's showed methe way that constant ladder of building up and supporting, of knowing when tostep up and step back is such a critical tool for building inclusivehealthcare, and I'm really excited to see how that's gonna continue totransform when in just a couple of years, I'm no longer a learner and I'm justa doctor.

KATHERINE VAKIL:
Yes, I will keep my comments brief. I thank my fellow panelists, mentioned alot of what I was gonna say, but I one thing I think that's worth repeating isthat it gave me again, that space to be my authentic self and who I truly am.And then on a more emotional, personal level, it made me feel less alone. LikeI said, I think for almost up to like seven years into my career, I really didfeel lonely in my disability identity there. But then I got to meet Kruti,another pharmacist who's hard of hearing what? There's more people out therelike me. It was so it was like it really rocked my world and I'm so gratefulfor that, for that connection with crew and all of the people that I'veconnected with in the disability community. And the other thing is, it trulyvalidated my experience as a disabled healthcare provider. Like, there are dayswhere it's hard and that's OK. It doesn't mean that I'm a bad pharmacist. Itjust it's just a hard day and I now have a community to lean on. And that truly,again, makes me feel less alone.

And that's probably the biggest impact it's had on me.

KRUTI SHAH:
What a great way to end the conversation. Thank you so much for sharing. Thankyou, Disability Lead, for elevating, for bringing us together for such animportant conversation. Thank you, audience, for coming and listening andactively sharing. Kudos. It was truly a pleasure to be in conversation witheach one of each and every one of you. And now I'll hand it over to Claire Killy. Education and Learning service manager at Disability Lead for closingremarks.

CLARE KILLY:
Thank you. Hello, everyone. This is Clare speaking, as you said, I'm theeducation and learning services manager here. I use she/her pronouns, and I'm awhite woman with brown and gray curly hair. I'd like to wrap us up first byjust extending a sincere thank you to our panelists for this incrediblypowerful discussion, and it was so amazing to see the community that you'vebuilt together, and with so many others being reflected right here in thisvirtual space. So, thank you all so much. Thank you to our Access Providers ASLinterpretation from AI media and CART services from Joe Gale. Thank all of youfor attending today. A couple quick notes. If you are a Disability Lead memberwho registered for the exclusive meet and greet with the panelists in just amoment, you've been sent a personal calendar invitation with a link to join.So, we'll see you there in a moment. If you're not a member, but you live orwork in the Chicagoland or southwestern Western Pennsylvania regions andidentify as a person with a disability, please consider applying to join ourmember network for access to exclusive leadership development opportunities andsupport.

Plus, we are now recruiting for our 2026 Institute, ayear-long fellowship for emerging disabled leaders. Some of our panelists herehave been a part of that program. You can click the link in the chat to learnmore and apply. We also hope you'll find other ways to stay connected with us.Check out our stories and updates at disability.org. And stay tuned for moreinformation about our next Disability Power Series event coming up later thisyear. Lastly, before you go, please take a moment to complete our programfeedback survey. It's being shared in the chat, but it will also pop up on yourscreen when this webinar closes. Thank you to our panelists. Thank you to ouraudience. I hope everyone has a wonderful day.